White rat build thread

[95whtzr2]

This is going to be my "official" build thread for my solid axle conversion... Albeit a very slow process for me considering my work schedule and whatnot.

I am not asking anyone to do my research for me, but just to pick your brain, or point me in a proper direction. And I am always looking for your opinions

I bought a 1978 F250 dana 44 a year or so ago, it has sat relatively untouched until the other night. I finally got around to tearing it down. It has 4.09 gears- appears to be stock, so fortunately I have the larger carrier. The axle shafts look to be in great condition, so I will be reusing them for the time being.

My plan for now is to run an open carrier until I get more money, I want to run a selectable locker eventually, and probably alloy shafts. I am looking into 4.88 gears, and 35-38" tires. I know its a tall gear for those tires, but I like the taller gears, especially as little street time as the Z will see.

For the rear I am looking into a 14B, D60, or D70. Haven't found one yet, but they seem rather common for $100-$300. So I am not too worried about that.

I don't plan on taking this truck any bigger than 38's, ever. That's the primary reason I am sticking to the D44 up front, and don't mind investing the money involved into it.

I don't know much about the whole axle scene, although I have been reading up on a lot of material, I am trying to learn, but there is a lot left I need to learn.

I found a set of 4.88's on ebay for a reasonable price, but they are "Nitro" brand, I have never heard of them, and was curious if anybody else has. I have seen a lot of yukons for a decent price, but was going to try and find something else instead.

As far as hi-steer arms go, is there anything in particular I need to pay attention to? I was planning on running tie rod ends, instead of heims, but am open to swaying if there is good reason. I know the steering depends heavily on this decision, and its the reason I haven't purchased them yet. But I was also curious if anyone knew for sure if I would need spacers or not, or does it depend on what springs I run?

I haven't decided on what springs to run yet, although I know they will be leaves. I haven't even really looked into it, not real sure where to start, but I am going to start reading build threads soon concerning the springs.

Since this is a slower build I am biding my time for any deals and whatnot, searching classifieds and all. The list below is what I am searching for, and if anyone runs across any of it let me know...

-14B/D60/D70 rear, standard 8 lug bolt pattern.
-4.88 gears
-Hi-steer arms
-Diff protection

If there is anything I am missing, please enlighten me, as I am subject to forgetfullness often!

FYI: As far welding, I won't be the one welding it up, I am going to tack it all where I want it, and have a friend who is a professional welder come in and weld everything for me.

[Miles]

[1TFROT]

diff protection- check out some of the vendors on Pirate. really good deals on some bullet proof covers.


everything else- be patient and look for deals

4.88s are perfect for street driving with 37s and the OD trans.

good luck

[95whtzr2]

Cool, people I had talked to had said they would be a little low, but perfection is always nice.

Anyone heard of nitro gears?

I'll look into pirate when I get off worn tonight.

[Zombie]

Forgive my ignorance, what truck are you using?

[Miles]

Deeeees wahn.........

[95whtzr2]

Lol... No worries zombie. I am using my pile of zr2...

[Zombie]

I think you'll be fine for a while on 38s and a D 44... Sean King can give you some advice for a treatment on the U joints... tig welding them to the yokes or something... it's been a while. Sean ran Dana 44s with 5:13 gears, ARB front and detroi rear (I think) with 38" TSL SXs on Steel wheels, and that is not a light weight combo for tires. Granted, he was pushing them with a toyota 22Re squirrel, but he was at 200 something to one ratio with dual T cases, and he never broke the 44 shafts or joints... PM or email him. He'd be an awesome resource.

[95whtzr2]

Sweet, thanks. I figure when it gets a bit closer I'll contact him, I want to get my questions lined up before I contact him, so I don't bother him too much ya know.

[1TFROT]

and actually not necessary at that. some truly believe in welding caps, but if you do, you can't ever just replace the ujoint since the cap will be welded to the ear.

that being said, I know typically the ears will splay and not work well, but........

I did not weld mine in and had zero issues with 37s on my D44. that was with Yukon inners and outers. mine was wheeled fairly hard as well.

I do believe that I was pretty much at the limit of that axle, so I wheeled it smart, but was still very hard on it.

[DFW Rusty]

If ur gonna run 38's then run the TSL SX..... best 38" tire around! I dont know if they make a sticky in 38, but if they do that would be an awesome tire 38" TSL SX sticky....

My dad is runnin a front d44 with 38's and his jeep is very heavy for a small jeep, gets abused and hasn't had one issue yet!

[Zombie]

Originally Posted by DFW Rusty

I dont know if they make a sticky in 38, but if they do that would be an awesome tire 38" TSL SX sticky....

Last I heard, Interco would make a sticky anything for a special order, but at a price. I don't remember the exact price a friend of mine was quoted for a set of sticky 38x12.5x15 TSL SXs was, but I recall thinking that if I were to buy a set, I'd probably feel it all the way to the backside of my front teeth.

Just sayin...

[95whtzr2]

The SX is actually the tire I am aiming for...
Don't need stickies yet, doubt I ever will just cause of
price... Lol

[1TFROT]

the SX will be the one of the heaviest tires they make so it might not be the best choice for a D44


just sayin

[Miles]

Irok.

[95whtzr2]

Yeah, that was one of my worries, I was thinking about starting with a smaller, lighter, maybe an A/T or M/t to get the front end broken in, then once its broken in, and I have gotten used to it jump to the sx... I dunno. Just my ultimate goal ya know! hehehe, thanks steve!

Jeremy, I believe that is your opinion, and everyone is entitled to their own, but I don't think you rock as much as that. But seriously, I have considered the irok, and still am. I just don't like the looks of them as much as other tires, but then again looks don't mean everything :shrug:

[Miles]

I intend to run a set of Pitbulls one day. Just sayin you don't see em on the trail very often...

[95whtzr2]

So, just thinking out loud here... input is always appreciated

Front axle:
4.88 gears- ~$200
Diff cover- ~$150
hi-steer arms+knuckle machine- ~$200
draglink/tie-rods- ~$150
springs- ~$???
shocks- ~$???
Tires- ~$????
ARB locker- ~$800 (already have compressor)
Alloy axles- ~$800

Rear axle:
MIA

Of course the locker/axles might come later, I am still debating that... I have a credit card I am ready to dedicate to this project, and there is room for these on there. However, I might just wait, for what reasoning I honestly don't know, I mean, if I plan on doing it anyways ya know

Still haven't decided on springs/shocks... Any specific recommendations?

I looked through pirate, didn't see too many deals, maybe I am missing something?

I was looking at the diff covers, I am strongly considering the ARB cover, however, I wasn't sure about the cast iron. What's y'alls thoughts on cast iron vs. rolled/stamped etc.? I really like the ballistic as well, its cheaper. If I did get the ARB I would definitely paint it, I don't like the red under the vehicle (*cough* jerm *cough*)

It is a lot of money invested into a "POS", but it is my "dream vehicle"... And I don't ever intend on selling it. Its worth more to me than anyone would realistically give me for it anyways

[95whtzr2]

Originally Posted by Miles

I intend to run a set of Pitbulls one day. Just sayin you don't see em on the trail very often...

I have seen those and really liked them! I totally forgot about them though!

[1TFROT]

pitbulls are too wide for many applications. and I could never run such a sissy tire since I own a rottweiler

as for the size, the 39" irok is ok at best. many people complain about it not being all that great, but it is light for it's size. I really like my 42" iroks, but for some reason they are night and day difference on the trails compared to the 39s.

maybe try a 38" TSL. cheap, moderate weight and work well anywhere.


Still haven't decided on springs/shocks... Any specific recommendations?

coils or leafs? shocks, go with a cheap gas shock and you'll be fine. I used both BDS and ProComp and they worked fine



I was looking at the diff covers, I am strongly considering the ARB cover, however, I wasn't sure about the cast iron. What's y'alls thoughts on cast iron vs. rolled/stamped etc.? I really like the ballistic as well, its cheaper. If I did get the ARB I would definitely paint it, I don't like the red under the vehicle (*cough* jerm *cough*)

don't bother with ARB. check out Great Lakes Offroad. I have their D60 and 14 bolt covers and they are bullet proof. ask me how I know get with Dave (DW) and see if he has an account with anyone who makes the good stuff.

Greatlakeoffroad
Ballistic
Ruffstuff
Poison Spyder (bad ass covers!)
Kore

[1TFROT]

pics of my GLO diamond plate covers

[95whtzr2]

I bet a rot would tear up a pitbull...

I plan on running leafs... Don't feel like dickin with coils yet...

I really liked the drain plug on the ARB, and thought the design itself was unique, but I would feel too much like a queen with it, dunno if that makes sense. I definitely do like the poison spyder cover as well!

Any pros/cons to cast steel for the cover? Wouldn't it chip instead of bend? But in theory if you were to chip it a regular steel cover wouldve been trash anyways?

[Mud Man89]

i know the KORE diff covers are nice too. I've been out with a few rigs here that are running the KORE covers. they can take a beating. I have watched him build them in shop, I really like his cnc table . I can ask him next time i'm down there for some info on them if you want

[ArkansasBlaZeR2]

Surprised you haven't mentioned anything about a front driveshaft, seems like that would be first on your list.......

[1TFROT]

Originally Posted by 95whtzr2

I bet a rot would tear up a pitbull...

you kiddin me? no contest

[cknaffle]

The Ruffstuff covers are the cheapest on the market. They're all the same thickness and shape, so they are all the same strength. Its just a matter of choosing a vendor. I can get you a good deal Ruffstuff, just let me know what you need.

[95whtzr2]

Originally Posted by ArkansasBlaZeR2

Surprised you haven't mentioned anything about a front driveshaft, seems like that would be first on your list.......

LOL... yeah yeah yeah... How's your V8 going? Or is it still?

Originally Posted by cknaffle

The Ruffstuff covers are the cheapest on the market. They're all the same thickness and shape, so they are all the same strength. Its just a matter of choosing a vendor. I can get you a good deal Ruffstuff, just let me know what you need.

Good deal man! I was looking into the GLO, was thinking about getting the 1/2" lower half support... But then again I wasn't sure. I have been waiting on purchasing my rear axle before buying any parts, save a little on shipping ya know (whether it be for the vendor or me)... But if you can get me a good deal then I will probably just do that. I will let you know when I get my rear axle and order them

So I guess I can update this...

I have been thinking about going rather balls out with the dana 44:

-Nitro 4.88 gears, Cryo'd
-Nitro axles
-300M joints
-Reid knuckles
-Ballistic hi-steer arms
-Harsh Terrain Ball Joints
-ARB

I have already purchased the things in blue. I got the BJ's off of ebay for a decent price. Haven't heard anything about them, and I figure they will be the weak point. I know ballistic is working on BJ's, but time will tell the cost and when they will be ready. When these go out I might get the Ballistic, don't know for sure yet.

The main brand here is Nitro, just because the vendor I have been looking at on Pirate that has given me the best prices deals in Nitro, and I haven't seen anything negative about them yet.

I am wanting to keep it streetable as I don't have a tow rig anymore (that's how I can afford this now )

I could go with a dana 60, but I am aiming for 38" max, and I figure if I do the chromo's and such the 44 should handle it. If I find a cheap 60, I would definitely pick it up instead though ...


I have all but decided on a rear axle. I was looking into the widths, and this is where I have found some difficulty in narrowing it down 100%. Correct me if I am wrong: the front D44 is 65" (WMS-WMS) wide, so I want an axle narrower for an increased turning radius... The typical SRW GM 14 bolt generally is a lot wider. The DRW is a little wider. And the 14 bolt Cab and chassis is 63.5"... I have found a few of these, but I haven't been in town to pick them up. The problem I see with the C&C 14 bolt is the backing plates are apparently in a bad position, making bolt on disk brakes impossible, and weld on being the only solution. No biggy though. I am concerned with how exactly its going to work out- I haven't been able to fully wrap my head around what its going to look like.

I plan on doing 4.88's and ARB in the rear as well, not concerned with shafts, or cryo of R&P.

I haven't decided on springs, steering, DRIVESHAFTS, or other important details. I am focusing on the axles then cutting the IFS off, then measuring, and ordering other stuff.

Oh, by the way... Me and my roomate went in halves on a plasma cutter. Yee haw

Its the Longevity LC416D, plasma, arc, and TIG (Doesn't weld aluminum) combo unit. Works pretty good! I am impressed, especially for a $500 China-made unit with a 5yr parts/labor warranty, and there customer service was awesome.

https://www.longevity-inc.com/produc...6D.php#general

Now if I can stay in town long enough to purchase a rear axle I can get started on never finishing...

[1TFROT]

good list for the D44, but I would not bother with the cryo unless you get it really cheap. I never cryo'd my 4.88s, ran a couple different sets of 37s and beat the hell out of it with zero issues. your weak link will still be the shafts, u-joints, or hubs. let the hubs be the weak link and it's a simple fix on the trail.

I was running Yukons and spicer 760s in mine. was also running spicer bj's and they were still solid tight after almost 3 years of wheelin 37s

just find a typical 14 bolt bolt and be done. it'll be bulletproof for what you are using it for. hell, I don't even ever think about mine and that's behind 42s and a warm 6.0

[95whtzr2]

The problem with a typical 14 bolt is it will be a few inches wider than my front axle, which is my only concern with the 14 bolt.

I am planning on my weak link being te hubs, I forgot to mention I have a set of warn premiums I am planning on using. Which hub were you using?

Thanks for the input

[cknaffle]

Any hub except the $$$$ ones will be weaker than the axle shafts. At least that's the idea anyway. Its designed to be the fuse in the system. Steve is right in that getting your axles cryo'd is a waste unless you run slugs.

[1TFROT]

I run drive flanges. still just running Yukon chromos in mine. those will be the weak link for me (we'll find out soon with the new motor and tires)

will be getting spares for the front though, for when it happens

[95whtzr2]

Yeah, I was debating on chryoing the R&P just to make sure the hubs were the fuse, I don't think I'll be worried about the shafts and joints.

Steve, I meant what were you using on your 44? Slugs or hubs?

Appreciate the advice guys. When I get back from vacation I'm picking up the cab and chassis 14B and see how that pans out. I'm getting it cheap enough I can resale it if I need to without losing any/much money.

[YJMIKE]

I still have that dana 70, I will prob sell. i am thinking of going with rocks. If I ever get off my ass and start working on my Jeep again. I also have my 36" Irocks I will sell since I want 42s

[1TFROT]

Originally Posted by 95whtzr2

Steve, I meant what were you using on your 44? Slugs or hubs?

sorry, misunderstood ya.

was running stock hubs, which are arguably stronger than the Warns.

did this with the 4.3 and 37s, Yukons won that battle

[95whtzr2]

Originally Posted by YJMIKE

I still have that dana 70, I will prob sell. i am thinking of going with rocks. If I ever get off my ass and start working on my Jeep again. I also have my 36" Irocks I will sell since I want 42s

Mike, I got a pretty good line on the 14B, if it falls through we shall be in contact. On the irocs, I would be interested but aren't they 15 inch rim? If they aren't I will be interested again...

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but there aren't any 15's that will clear the dual piston calipers on the front... :/

Steve, damnitt man... Nice! The stock fronts weren't in very good shape at all, but I might look into a set and use the warns for spares- need to buy some more hubs so I have spares anyways...

[95whtzr2]

I purchased a 1983 14 bolt cab and chassis rear axle, which sits at 63.5" wms-wms. Fingers crossed everything works out ok.

I am in Louisiana currently, will be home this coming weekend, and apparently I have some things waiting on me...

I don't really want orange under my truck, what's y'alls opinions on painting the Reid knuckles(black)? I am assuming there is nothing wrong with doing it, but ya never know... I was planning on just rattle-canning them black, I know the orange is powder coated- I don't want to sandblast them or anything though. I am kinda worried about them chipping and being like a rifle target, showing everywhere its chipped (might just leave them orange instead.) Thoughts and opinions?

[cknaffle]

My truck looks ridiculous with orange knuckles, but I figured I would never get paint to stick to them. Guarantee rattle can will chip off. I didn't have time to have them sandblasted, and I was also concerned the machined surfaces would be damaged if I did. That being said, the only thing on my truck that is not black or blue are those stupid orange knuckles. Big job to make them a different color.

There's no way of hiding the darn things, they are bold as they come.

[Miles]

Man, that thing looks incredible.

[cknaffle]

Thanks Jeremy.

[95whtzr2]

I agree with jerm... I just "drooled" a little bit...

Thats what I was afraid of Chris... I might buy a bunch of colors and paint it gradually from orange to black...

Thanks for the input... and the pics to give me wood...

By the way, are you still selling the transfer case front output adapter thing... I can't think of the name for the life of me, slides on the slip yoke coming out of the t-case...